WARNING LONG POST!
These are serious questions I have after doing much research on Islam (non-Muslim). I had others, but these are the ones I still had or developed in addition to the originals once I started doing my reasearch. I have tried to keep my research as unbiased as possible, only reading what unbiased secular authorities have written about Muslim beliefs as well as reading answers about similar subjects by various recognized scholars of the Qur'an. I understand there is at least some disagreement at least where Adam was created, but I chose to question the answer that made the least sense to me in terms of that. Please cite and quote the Qur'an and include explanation of those verses in your answers, please. And please don't send me to another site, I'm weary of link-surfing. Thanks in advance!
I TRIED TO ANSWER EACH OF YOUR QUESTION YOU ASKED BUT IF I FELT LIKE ONE OF THEM WAS ALREADY COVERED IN WHAT I SAID I DIDNT REPEAT IT.I CURRENLY DIDNT HAVE WHERE EACH OF THE QUOTES ARE FROM BECAUSE I DID THIS ALL BASED ON MEMORY OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT BUT I ASSURE YOU IT IS VERY ACCURATE AND LONG BECAUSE I STUDIED OVERSEAS.SORRY IM NOT SCREAMING AT YOU I JUST FELT LIKE THE FONT WAS TOO SMALL. TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION IM JUST GONNA HAVE TO RE-EXPLAIN THE STORY BECAUSE MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAID IS BASED ON CHRITIAN BELIFS THE FIRST THING I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT TO YOU IS THAT GOD IS ALL KNOWING AND ALL SEEING AND BEFORE I BEGIN THE STORY YOU MUST KNOW THAT ALLAH ALREADY KNEW THAT IBLEES(DEVIL)HAS DISOBEYED AND DOES NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF HUMANS AND THAT HE MADE AN OATH TO DESTROY MANKIND TILL THE LAST DAY ON EARTH. SO ADAM WAS THE ONLY MAN TO BE CREATED DIRECTLY FROM ALLAH AND ALLAHS BREATH WE WERE CREATED FROM CLAY THEN WE WERE BLOWN ON WHICH IS WHAT A SOUL IS AND THEN ADAM WAS ALIVE THIS SHOWS HOW HE WAS CREATED IN HEAVEN BUT THE MATIREAL HE WAS MADE FROM WAS FROM EARTH (DIRT) SO THE ANGELS ASKED WHY MAN WAS CREATED WHEN GOD HAD LOYAL SERVANTS(THE ANGELS) BUT THEN ALLAH DISPROVED THEM AND SHOWED THEM THAT WE ARE MUCH MORE KNOLEDGEABLE SO ALL THE ANGELS WERE TOLD TO BOW DOWN TO HIM AND THEY OBEYED BUT IBLEES AND HE SAID I WAS MADE OF LIGHT AND HE FROM DIRT SO HOW WILL I BOW DOWN TO HIM. SO ADAM WAS DIRECTED TO NAME THE CREATURES HE SAW AND HE GAVE THEM EACH NAMES THEN ALLAH ASKED THE ANGELS TO DO THE SAME BUT THEY SAID WE ONLY KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TAUGHT US. SO THIS PROVED TO THEM THAT THIS CREATION WAS A WORTHY ONE AND THEY SAID BY ALLAH! YOU TRULY KNOW WHATS BEST. SO THEN WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN HEAVEN ALLAH TOOK THE TOP RIB OF ADAM AND MADE FROM HIM A WIFE SO THAT MAN AND WOMEN WOULD HAVE HUMAN INSTINCT TO BE TOGETHER AS ONE( BUT ONLY WHEN THEY ARE MARRIED) AND THEN THEY WERE KEPT IN HEAVEN FOR SOME TIME THIS GAVE THE HUMAN RACE THE NATURAL YEARNING TO WANT TO BELONG IN HEAVEN AND ALLAH INSTRUCTED THEM THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO STAY AS LONG AS THEY WANT AS LONG AS THEY STAY AWAY FROM THE TREE, WE ARE NOT TOLD WHAT TYPE OF TREE IT IS BUT CHRITIANITY CLAIMS IT TO BE EITHER A POMAGRANTE OR APPLE TREE. THE DEVIL TOLD THEM THAT THE REASON WHY THEY COULDENT EAT FROM IT IS BECAUSE IT WOULD CAUSE THEM TO LIVE FOREVER. BUT THE TREE ACTUALLY HAD KNOWLEDE OF WHAT WAS RIGHT AND WRONG AND SINCE GOD KNEW THAT THEY WERE DESTINED TO EAT FROM THE TREE HE PUT SOMTHING WONDERFULL IN IT, KNOWLEDGE. AND FROM HERE ON IT SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME STORY BUT THIS IS THE DIFFERANCE WITH OUR BELIFS, WE BELIVE THAT GOD ALREADY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO SINAND THIS IS WHY HE PREPARED EARTH AND KNOWLEGDE IN A FRUIT FOR THEM THIS WAS A TEST THAT THEY WERE ALREADY DESTINED TO FAIL BUT THROUGH FAILURE THEY WERE ABLE TO LEARN RIGHT AND WORNG, IM GOING TO START NOW FROM WHERE ALLAH WAS QUESTIONING THEIR ACT, UNLIKE IN CHRISTIANITY NEITHER EVE NOR ADAM WERE PUNISHED MORE SEVERLY OR WERE BLAMED MORE BUT IT WAS EQUALLY THEIR FAULT AND THEY RECIVED THE SAME PUNISMENT THEY WERE SENT DOWN TO EARTH BUT THE REASON WHY THIS HAPPENED WAS SO THEY MAY GROW A NATURAL HATE TOWORSS THE DEVIL KNOW THAT HE IS A LIAR AND A DECIVERAND ALSO THEY LEARNNED RIGHT AND WRONG NOT ONLY THROUGH ACTION BUT PHYSICALLY TOO THROUGH THE APPLE SO THIS PREPARED THEM FORTHEIR LIFE ON EARTH AND GAVE HUMANS A VERY GOOD LESSON. THIS IS WHY ADAM IS OUR PROPHET BECAUSE THROUGHT HIS ACTION WE LEARNED SOMTHING VERY GOOD AND WHEN HE ATEE THE APPLE IT GAVE US KNOWLEDGE AND FROM HIM WE WERE ALL BORN EVEN HIS WIFE. AND FROM THEN ON THEY HAD CHILDREN SO WE WERE ALL BORN THROUGH ADAM AND ONLY ADAM WAS ACUALLY CREATED BY THE HANDS AND BREATH OF ALLAH. SO ADAM WAS SENT ON EARTH SIMPLY TO LIVE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT BUT EVEN MORE IT WAS A LESSON AND HE BELONGED TO EARTH ANYWAY HE WAS ONLY IN HEAVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE TO 1-HE WAS CREATED THERE 2- SO WE MAY HAVE A NATURAL YEARNING TO BE IN HEAVEN AND FEEL LIKE ITS OUR HOME. SO ADAM CONTINED LIVING WITH HIS WIFE AND THEY BOTH ASKED FOR FORGIVNESS AND IT WAS ACCEPTED BECAUSE THE ACT HE COMMITED WAS ONE THAT ALLAH KNEW WAS COMMING AND COULDENT BE PREVENTED AND WAS ALSO A LEARNING EXPIRENCE FOR HIM. PARADICE IS NOT EQUAL TO EARTH NOR WILL IT EVER BE WE DO BELONG IN HEAVEN BUT FIRT WE WERE CREATED TO WORSHIP SO ADAM AND ALL OF HIM OFFSPRINGS WERE SENT TO WORSHIP ALLAH, AWAY FROM HIM TO TEST OUR FAITH AND LOYALTY AND BELIVE IN THE UNSEEN THIS IS THE F]GREATEST ACT OF LOYALTY BELIVING IN SOMTHING THAT YOU CONNOT EVEN SEE FOR YOURSELF THIS IS WHY WE WERE SENT HERE. THIS IS THE REASON FOR EARTH AS ANOTHER TEST WE CANNOTSEE ALLAH BUT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THIS PLANET IF WE WERE IN PARADISE WE WILL SEE AND HEAR AND IT WILL BE EASIER TO BELIVE BUT TO TEST OUR LIMIT OF BELIF WE ARE HERE. AND AS FOR HAVING AN INFINITE SPACE, THERE IS IN HEAVEN THERE IS ENOUGH ROOM FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON CREATED OR WILL BE CREATED EVEN THOUGH WE WONT ALL GO TO HEAVEN, ENOUGH SPACE WAS CREATED JUST IN CASE OUR SPECIES WERE ALL GOING. THE REASON WH YMOST DONT CONTACT UNBELIVERS AS YOU SAY IS THAT AMERICANS DONT WANT TO LEARN FOR THOSE WHO DO THERE ARE SITES LIKE THIS AND MANY OTHERS AND MOSQUES BUT WE ARENT SENT TO CONVERT PEOPLE IT HAS TO BE SOMONE PERSONAL CHOICE SO WE ONLY PREACH TO THOOSE WHO WANT TO LEARN NOT LIKE MORMANS WHO DIRECLTY KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR AND SHOVE INFORMATION DOWN YOUR THROUT, BUT IF YOU GO TO OTHER CONTRIES IN THE EAST YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY ARE MUCH MORE OPEN BECAUSE IN PLACES LIKE GERMANY,FRANE, AND AUSTRALIA, THEY ARENT LABELED AS TERRORIST EVERY TIME THEY WALK OUT THEIR DOOR IT MAKES MUSLIMS LIVING IN AMERICAAFRAID TO RANDOMLY GO UP TO PEOPLE AND TALK ABOUT THEIR RELIGION IN FACT IN AMERICA MANY YOUNG MUSLIMS GO TO THE EXTENT OF REMOVING THEIR VEILS AND CHANGING THEIR NAMES TO "FIT IN" IN PUBLIC SCOOLS PEOPLE CAN BE VERY CRUEL EVEN AT THE PARK ONCE AN OLD COUPLE WERE WHISPERING ABOUT OUR FAMILY AND STARING AT US IN DISCUST AND I SPECIFICALLY HEARD ONE OF THEM SAY THEIR WEARING OUR SHOES AS IF VANS BELONG TO THEM EVEN THOUGH I AM AMERICAN AND LABLED AS WHITE WHEN I SIGN STUFF. AND HUMANS DO NOT GO WILLINGLY DOWN TO EARTH BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE IN HEAVEN OR HELL OR IN THE GRAVE YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO RETURN TO EARTH FOR ANY REASON, ONLY JESUS WILL BE ALLOWED BECAUSE HE DIDNT DIE WHEN HE WAS SENT TO EARTH WHEN YOU DIE YOU CANNOT RETURN BUT HE DID NOT DIE AND ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING LEFT IN IT WILL BE DESTROYED THEN THROWN IN HELL FIRST BECAUSE THERE IS NO USE FOR IT SECOND BECAUSE PEOPLE WORSHIP THE EARTH MOON STARS DIRT TREES AND ANIMALS AND ANYTHING ELSE CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND WORSHIPED WILL BE THROWN IN HELL. A SIN SOMONE DOES IS NOT ALREADY GURENTEEING SOMONE INTO HELL BECAUSE ONE MAY ALWAYS REPENT SO A DEED DONE OF EVIL LETS SAY STEALING DOSENT JUST = HELL WE HAVE OUR WHOLE LIVES TO FIX WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRNG,REPENT AND DO GOOD IN REPLACEMENT BUT ONE MUST START RIGHT AWAT BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THEY WILL DIE.SO ADAM DID NOT RECIVE A PUNISHMENT BECAUSE HIS SIN WAS A LEARNING EXPIRENCE. ADAM DID SIN BUT IT WAS A WAY FOR HIM TO LEARN, ONE MIGHT SAY IT WAS ALSO A WAY TO GET THEM ONTO EARTH. THIS WASENT ONLY A MAY TO SHOW THAT ALLAH IS MERCIFALL BUT THAT WAS PART OF IT, BUT YES IT IS A HUMAN INSTINCT THAT AFTE A SIN, REPENTENCE IS NEEDED AND GOD HAS A LOT OF MERCY SO IT MAY BE FORGIVEN BASED ON YOUR REPENTANCE. IF YOU HAVENT DONE ANYTHING WRON THEN YOU DONT NEED FORGIVNESS. IF YOU WONDER WHAT HAPPENED IN THE END FOR ADAM AND EVE, WHEN PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAAWS CAME, HE ONCE NARATED THAT THE ANGEL GABRIEL CAME TO HIM WHIL HE WAS ASLEEP, AND TOOK HIM TO JERUSALEM TO PRAY THEN TO HEAVEN BECAUSE ALLAH REQUESTED HIM(ISRA WAL MI3RAJ) SO THE PROPHET DID SO AND HE SAID HE SAW ALL THE PROPHET AND SPECIFALLY NAMED ADAM AS ONE OF THEM GABRIEL SAID THIS IS YOUR FATHER GREET HIM AND MUHHAMAD SAID: ASSALAMU-ALAIKUM AND ADAM REPLIED: WA-ALLAIKUM-ASSALAM.
Thank you for your thorough answer! Believe it or not, I do still have a few questions, although, you did address the ones I already have asked.
As I said, if either Adam or Eve were actually created in heaven, this seems to be much more in agreement on the verses quoting Allah, in saying that he would Adam on the Earth (however, I do not personally believe this, but I'm sure you already guessed that anyways). As far as Christianity goes, as I am a Christian, one of Jehovah's Witnesses, it is a bit frustrating when I hear that other faiths believe certain things are taught from the Bible that actually aren't. while it is true that many who profess to be Christian or of that background will say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad had a particular type of fruit that we are familiar with today, the actual Bible doesn't make this claim. Instead, it also only refers to it as fruit. I am sure you shake your head at some of the teachings or beliefs that those who claim they are Muslim but do not truly understand the Qur'an and therefore encourage the misunderstsanding of the Qur'an among those not well acquainted with it.
"BUT THE TREE ACTUALLY HAD KNOWLEDE OF WHAT WAS RIGHT AND WRONG AND SINCE GOD KNEW THAT THEY WERE DESTINED TO EAT FROM THE TREE HE PUT SOMTHING WONDERFULL IN IT, KNOWLEDGE." Now this right here I have an issue with, because it almost sounds like there was a reward for disobeying, which is exactly what the Bible says Satan told Eve about the Tree. Even though he was partially right (she would know the difference between good and bad, and the Bible says he also told her she would not die when God expressly said otherwise), he implied that God was holding back something good from them, which if the Qur'an is to be belived, sounds like Allah is saying as well. If he knew that they would eat from it, why would he reward them with knowledge, wouldn't this make it seem as if Allah tells you not to do things because he is trying to hide them from you, but if you find them, because it is a trick, you will obtain what he had intended for you all along. That doesn't sound like a good incentive to follow, Allah, rather, it makes it sound like a dare, as in, Allah says not to do it, but he may have something good waiting for you if you do. Wouldn't a better way to teach this lesson be to not have a good outcome for the disobedient ones? And if he gave them knowledge because in their disobedience they would be sent to Earth and need it, isn't he helping them lessen the effects of his own punishment? If the real purpose of being sent down to earth was not only to develop it but also to feel hardship, then why would he want to soften that blow and risk them not getting the need to worship him as urgently? This is like if I punished my child, told them to go their room, no toys, no t.v., because they opened a box I told them not to open. Perhaps it was meant for them one day, but they had opened it before I meant for them to have it. Inside that box is a toy that I know they would really enjoy. So, now that they've got the toy, and enjoyed it, instead of sending them to their room without it, which would make sense, I send them to their room, but let them keep it, because even though I won't let them have anything else, if they have that toy, it'll take the sting off my punishment and make it easier to bear. Do you think my child is going to learn from thislesson that they need to obey me because they miss being with me in the living room, or do you think their going to think, well it was worth it, because I still got the toy, and besides, I know how to get mom to love me again, and she will forgive me (you say Adam knew how to gain God's approval already, unless you mean he learned this afterwards). It's not important to wait in my child's mind, because even though I wanted them to open their present later, I just let them keep it when they did open it. In other words, I don't even care about my own rule to enforce it properly. Does it even make it seem as if that rule was important to begin with? Anyways, why would Allah, or even God for that matter, who wanted humans to worship him, wish for them to take the authority of deciding good and bad upon themselves. We can't say that it was simply knowing right and wrong that they were taking for themselves, because they already knew right and wrong. They knew it was right to listen to their Creator, and wrong to disobey him. If they didn't, they wouldn't need punishment, they would need correction, but no, Allah did not keep them around to teach them this principle because they had already known it. In fact, he punished them, because it was a concsious decision they made, not just a simple mistake or understanding. It makes more sense, that the tree meant not just knowing what good and bad was, the taking the authority to dictate or decide what good and bad was, and they wanted this for themselves, even though God in the Bible says that the tree, or we could even say authority, was his.
"SO ADAM WAS SENT ON EARTH SIMPLY TO LIVE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT BUT EVEN MORE IT WAS A LESSON AND HE BELONGED TO EARTH ANYWAY HE WAS ONLY IN HEAVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE TO 1-HE WAS CREATED THERE 2- SO WE MAY HAVE A NATURAL YEARNING TO BE IN HEAVEN AND FEEL LIKE ITS OUR HOME." This also bothers me, because if Adam belonged on the Earth (you say to, but I assume you mean on, if not, let me know; I'm not trying to harp on grammar either, but in matters of ancient texts that we do not currently speak anymore compared to our modern languages and words and meanings, it actually becomes an issue), then why would Allah make him yearn to be somewhere he didn't belong? This sounds frustrating at best. And if he belonged on Earth, why wouldn't he stay there? Or why wasn't he at least made there? And how does Islam explain the formation of a physical body that Adam presumably used in the heavens (you say the Qur'an says he was made of earth and the breath of life blown into him) and then lived there for some time in? What did he eat? How did he survive in the atmosphere, even if it was within the earth's atmosphere where there would be oxygen, the lack of it in so high an altitude that would constitute the difference between being in the heavens and being within Earth range? Either he was not in heaven in the body that is recorded Allah made for him before everything else happened, or he was in a different kind of human like body that could survive in those circumstances (which would make him not really human, or spirirt, but some other kind of being), or he was at an altitude where he wasn't physically touching the ground but he was able to breathe air that is oxygen saturated enough for human life, and have access to food from the earth. Unless he ate something else, or Allah sustained him, which, if he was going to do that, would be much easier to do with him in spirit form, since everyone else was a spirit, and Adam and Eve would have been the only beings visible to the human eye. On top of the fact that you say one day we will be able to see Allah, so is that a third existence, the first being a human in heaven unable to see Allah, because he is human, than a human living on Earth, then the third being spirits in heaven? The last two I can believe, and do believe for some, but the first just seems too impractical, far-fetched, etc.
"SO ADAM CONTINED LIVING WITH HIS WIFE AND THEY BOTH ASKED FOR FORGIVNESS AND IT WAS ACCEPTED BECAUSE THE ACT HE COMMITED WAS ONE THAT ALLAH KNEW WAS COMMING AND COULDENT BE PREVENTED AND WAS ALSO A LEARNING EXPIRENCE FOR HIM." While I see the benefit of learning from one's mistakes, it just doesn't seem like a good way to go about learning. If Allah is as concerned with obedience as the Qur'an says he is, why wouldn't he just want them to be obedient in the first place and learn to be obedient to him by practicing it, instead of learning the hard way. Afterall, these were perfect individuals, with perfect minds capable of learning probably far more complex ideas than we are currently able to. I'm not sure I have ever met a human who was a parent who would set up a test that they knew their child could not pass so they could learn not to do that. An example would be the present again. Suppose I don't have that present in any old cardboard box, but it is wrapped in my child's favorite pattern and colors, it is all shiny, and perhaps it is not even a box, perhaps it is just wrapping paper covering the item where he can make out the shape, like a bicycle. Now, he's never had a bicycle before, and I've told him he isn't allowed to have it yet, because he isn't ready for it. I tell him this bicycle is mine, but it looks like it is for him, and is so alluring. In fact, I purposely make it look like this, so I can see if he is worthy of having it someday. But I know that there is no way he can resist it, and I don't want him to, because if he takes it, I can then show him what happens when he disobeys me. I ground him and send him to his room and also make him feel terrible for what he is done, but I also let him take the bike with him to his room, so he isn't too sad. Now I've punished him for something I told him he couldn't have, although at the very least, I knew this would happen, and then I let him keep the forbidden object, leaving him to wonder, is it really all that bad to have this after all? Or am I being lured into wanting things that I'm not supposed to have? This is mixed messages to put it lightly.
"PARADICE IS NOT EQUAL TO EARTH NOR WILL IT EVER BE"
I agree with you on that, I asked the question related to this because it is impossible to answer that question yes. And if you cannot answer the question with a yes, than you also cannot say that Earth and Paradise Heaven are equally good places for the same kind of test to take place.
"WE DO BELONG IN HEAVEN BUT FIRT WE WERE CREATED TO WORSHIP SO ADAM AND ALL OF HIM OFFSPRINGS WERE SENT TO WORSHIP ALLAH, AWAY FROM HIM TO TEST OUR FAITH AND LOYALTY AND BELIVE IN THE UNSEEN THIS IS THE F]GREATEST ACT OF LOYALTY BELIVING IN SOMTHING THAT YOU CONNOT EVEN SEE FOR YOURSELF THIS IS WHY WE WERE SENT HERE. THIS IS THE REASON FOR EARTH AS ANOTHER TEST WE CANNOTSEE ALLAH BUT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THIS PLANET IF WE WERE IN PARADISE WE WILL SEE AND HEAR AND IT WILL BE EASIER TO BELIVE BUT TO TEST OUR LIMIT OF BELIF WE ARE HERE." Now this puzzles me. I don't understand why I would need to hone a skill I don't intend to use in the future. Of what good is believing in something I cannot see if its only to prove that I belong where I can see him? Why would Allah ask his worshippers to something that is more than neccessary? If we are working towards being in a paradise where we can see him, why would we need to practice having faith in an unseeable God, unless, we would actually need that in the future, like if we remained in earth where we would never be able to see him. Thereby making that kind of skill very useful to have.
I sympathize and empathize with the situation of Muslims who abide by the laws of Islam and therefore become physically conspicuous towards outsiders and face stigma. However, as a stigmatized people, you must also understand or at least strive to understand what other religious groups like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who by their actions in faith are also conspicuous and stigmatized (I am actually a Jehovah's Witness myself) go through. For all of us, our religion is a choice, so it's not like we can say, well we cannot help it. Yes, if we wanted to, we could blend in and not follow what we feel is the right way of worshipping God, but in the same vein, it is sad that there is so much prejudice towards faith in general. Because I am receiving information from you, a Muslim, about your faith, I hope you will extend to me the patience of acknowledging me when I say that we do not shove anything down people's throats. I cannot speak for other groups for evangelize, but Jehovah's Witnesses simply do what they do because that is what Christ did, and is a part of our religion to follow his example. We do not believe he is divine or partners with God. While he enjoys an elevated position in our eyes, we view him as subject to God, as he even said he was. He expressly said he was not God when opposing religious leaders of the day tried to say that he was calling himself such as a form of blasphemy. But he denied it to the death (which we feel he did experience). That is what the Bible really says. It may seem as if we are forcing others to listen to use because even if someone says they are not interested, we may come back at another time. This is not because we want to pester them, and if they tell us to never come back, we make a note of that so we can comply with their request. But if someone says they are not interested because that day we are there to share with them a specific scripture or talk about a specific subject, often it is not clear whether it is the religion, the subject, or the Bible they are not interested in. So we check in with people from time to time because we may later be discussing a topic that does interest them. In addition, as I'm sure you have experienced with Muslim converts, peoples lives change constantly, and the answers to life that they have today may not satisfy their needs tomorrow. We want to make ourselves always ready and available for people to have open scriptural discussions. Thats whay we do it. Jesus also went from one person's house to another, instead of waiting at the synogogues to preach, and that is also why we are so proactive in our approach. Whether you believe Jesus wass a man worth following is your own opinion, but it cannot be refuted that we are engaging in the work he also did.
"AND HUMANS DO NOT GO WILLINGLY DOWN TO EARTH BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE IN HEAVEN OR HELL OR IN THE GRAVE YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO RETURN TO EARTH FOR ANY REASON, ONLY JESUS WILL BE ALLOWED BECAUSE HE DIDNT DIE WHEN HE WAS SENT TO EARTH WHEN YOU DIE YOU CANNOT RETURN BUT HE DID NOT DIE AND ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING LEFT IN IT WILL BE DESTROYED THEN THROWN IN HELL FIRST BECAUSE THERE IS NO USE FOR IT SECOND BECAUSE PEOPLE WORSHIP THE EARTH MOON STARS DIRT TREES AND ANIMALS AND ANYTHING ELSE CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND WORSHIPED WILL BE THROWN IN HELL." If humans cannot leave heaven for any reason, then why can they still be sent unwillingly? Do they not have a pre-human existence in heaven according to the Qur'an? If they do not, because Adam was sent down to heaven first as a punishment, wouldn't this be the sin of the father affecting the sons, which the Qur'an says Allah does not allow? If they do have a pre-human existence, then there must be some allowance for them to leave heaven, willingly or unwillingly. As for Jesus never dying, what does the Qur'an have to say concerning this? I am not familiar with this teaching. If, as you say, the earth will be destroyed (presumably because it is only a testing ground), will creation of people in heaven cease, or have they all been created in heaven beforehand and so will it be more like there are no more individuals to be sent down for testing? If there will be more people created (if it is an ongoing event), how will they be tested if there is no earth? Or will they need to be tested? What is the principle of justice behind that?
"A SIN SOMONE DOES IS NOT ALREADY GURENTEEING SOMONE INTO HELL BECAUSE ONE MAY ALWAYS REPENT SO A DEED DONE OF EVIL LETS SAY STEALING DOSENT JUST = HELL WE HAVE OUR WHOLE LIVES TO FIX WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRNG,REPENT AND DO GOOD IN REPLACEMENT BUT ONE MUST START RIGHT AWAT BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THEY WILL DIE.SO ADAM DID NOT RECIVE A PUNISHMENT BECAUSE HIS SIN WAS A LEARNING EXPIRENCE. ADAM DID SIN BUT IT WAS A WAY FOR HIM TO LEARN, ONE MIGHT SAY IT WAS ALSO A WAY TO GET THEM ONTO EARTH. THIS WASENT ONLY A MAY TO SHOW THAT ALLAH IS MERCIFALL BUT THAT WAS PART OF IT, BUT YES IT IS A HUMAN INSTINCT THAT AFTE A SIN, REPENTENCE IS NEEDED AND GOD HAS A LOT OF MERCY SO IT MAY BE FORGIVEN BASED ON YOUR REPENTANCE." This is probably the only question I didn't feel you answered head-on. I'm not asking about whether or not once if a person sins they are always doomed, so perhaps I was unclear on this question. I have read that in Islam, every prophet is seen as infallible. If this is true, I would like to know how Adam was considered a prophet because he did sin. My question was whether or not Allah made him perfect again afterward as part of his forgiveness, as this would be the only way to be considered a prophet by Islam's standards. In this vein, since all humans are presumably born pure according to the Qur'an, if they sin, do they lose or retain their prefection in Allah's eyes? I'm not saying that all humans are prophets who Allah views as deserving of going (back) to heaven, but in order to be received, Allah would have to forgive them of their sins. If they were not made perfect again before death, like Adam, then is their's a different kind of forgiveness granted? Is their repentance of less value in Allah's eyes if they are not made perfect again like Adam? Or does sinning not affect one's perfection? If this is true, then it wouldn't matter what you did, because Allah wouldn't send a perfect person to hell. Or does it take a certain severity of sin to mar that perfection? This s perhaps the hardest concept for me to understand, because if Adam was pure when made, and I am pure when made, and then Adam sinned, and I sin, and then Adam repented, and I repent, and Allah forgave him, and Allah forgives me, and Adam was considered perfect and went to heaven, then aren't I considered perfect and will go to heaven (This is on my belief that Islam states that a prophet is someone whom God has spoken to and also happens to be infallible, not infallible because God has spoken to him, or a prophet because he is infallible, or infallible because God has spoken to him and is therefore infallible. Correect me if I am wrong)? The only difference I see is Adam was considered a prohpet but I am not. "Do prophets receive a better, more powerful, forgiveness than non-prophets?" is basically what I am asking.
"IF YOU HAVENT DONE ANYTHING WRON THEN YOU DONT NEED FORGIVNESS." Exactly, so the question is, did Adam sin or no? If not, because he was infallible, then he didn't receive forgiveness either because he didn't need it. If he did sin, was he still, or really, a prophet?
"IF YOU WONDER WHAT HAPPENED IN THE END FOR ADAM AND EVE, WHEN PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAAWS CAME, HE ONCE NARATED THAT THE ANGEL GABRIEL CAME TO HIM WHIL HE WAS ASLEEP, AND TOOK HIM TO JERUSALEM TO PRAY THEN TO HEAVEN BECAUSE ALLAH REQUESTED HIM(ISRA WAL MI3RAJ) SO THE PROPHET DID SO AND HE SAID HE SAW ALL THE PROPHET AND SPECIFALLY NAMED ADAM AS ONE OF THEM GABRIEL SAID THIS IS YOUR FATHER GREET HIM AND MUHHAMAD SAID: ASSALAMU-ALAIKUM AND ADAM REPLIED: WA-ALLAIKUM-ASSALAM" Does this mean that Adam died, or no? If he didn't die, then Satan would actually be telling the truth (although he is called a liar) that he wouldn't die. If he did die, was he resurrected to a spirit life? Or was he transformed to a spirit creature or angel, therefore not really dying, and in that case, Satan would still have to be not lying. And that is something no one who believes the Bible or Qur'an can accept because if Satan isn't a liar, and he told the truth, then he didn't sin, he just exposed the truth about God, who could presmubaly said to be a liar according to our holy books. In which case, why would a liar deserve worship? I know you don't believe that as much as I dont.
I hope you don't take offense to what I have written here. I mean no disrespect to who you believe to be the Creator and the religion you believe is true. I have tried to present some alternatives to many of the views you expressed even if I don't believe they are true to really emphasize the things I do not understand with the full weight of what the answers might imply. In all honestly, I really want to understand how Muslims think, believe, and feel, because that is the only way to feel love for someone whose beliefs contradict your own, be it large or small. If we don't try to understand and relate to each other, than we can never escape the prejudice and dehumanisation of misunderstood peoples and cultures which often leads to hate and bloodshed. I thank you in advance for your careful reply, and appreciate your willingness to calmly discuss these topics with me!
Question 1-Allah wasent trying to hide somthing good from them the knowledge already belonged to them God made angels to only worship and only understand what is right but Allah wanted to give them the choice of worship so gave them knowlegde allah would ave given it to them weather they ate from it or not i forgot to mention this but it was the first time that anyone was tested by the tempations of the devil and they didnt know that it was right to listen to their creator and wrong to listen to the devil because they have only been exposed to good untill this point and think its ok to listen to anyone so because Allah is so merciful he allowed them to disobey(although allah wasent pleased that they did) its like if somone was an expert at somthing then they told somone else to do it and they mess up they wont punish them for it. so God wasent rewarding them for disobeying When Allah saw that the species was weak and fell into the devils trick Allah handed them the knowledge they needed to futher help fight them off. so instead of thinking it as a reward for disobeying think of it as a sheild for any futher temptations the devil tries to put on them.you gave the example with the toy but it dosent really work because the fruit was somthing that they didnt know heres how i think of the example based on the quran its like when you have a toddler that dosent know how to use a book their sibling(which i feel really bad about comparing to the devil sorry just want somone to do it) tells them to take it and read it because it will make the smatest being ever. but then you get angry with the toddler for ruining the book you dont punish them because you know that they are young and dont understand and see their sibling as somone to look up to and listen to. so you just let them keep it for later because as it turns out the book is about not falling into peerpressure and this will help them with their brother later and then they wont ruin another book. when they turn a little older they read that book, and the book explained to them that somtimes their siblings and freinds can be wrong so they apologize to their mother and even though the mother knew that they were young and uneducated at the time they are still very pleased with their actions, and the child is happy they apologized. question 2- what i meant by belonged on earth is because earlier i disscussed how humans were sent on earth as a trial to test if on their own will would worship their creator they dont belong their forever in fact prophet muhammad said treat this life as if you are a visitor i meant belong their temporarily i thought you got that from what i said earliler i wrote at the begining that if i fealt like i covered somthing i didnt restate it. so they needed a yearning of heaven because we do belong their if we pass our test which would give us motivation to try to pass it and worship Allah the best way we can. so we are given this natural yearning so we may try our best to return their. and as for if he lived their there is food inheaven and it was made for humans to life in before there were only angels and Allah paradise was made for humans and it was made in the 6 days as you know even chritianity covers that i know my own religion and i know that they were in heaven untill the devil came along.question 3-as i stated earlier it was the first time they were presented with this a child has already lived for some time adam and eve were just made and they needed to have a hate for the devil in the example you gave there is nothing tempting the child but the object itself but in adam and eves story they belived being sent to earth although as you can see i do not feel punished and then they would blame the devil for this and know not t listen to them a mother would never do this because she dosent want her child to feel a natural hate towards he so you must think of it as there are four different beings in the story and not only two like in the example. a better example again the one i said earlier. question 3- now here you have to know that Allah already has the power to crate somone to just plainly worship him Allah already had angels that have that job you have to think of it this way would you like to have a child that you have sheltered them from all evil temptations to the point where they dont know what lying is so they always listen to you and do good because this is all they know or would you rather have a child where they hace been exposed to every single indecent act in the wourld yet they would rather listen to you because they know you raised them and know what is best for them this is like humans and angels why would the child need this skill to always listen to their mother whe in these days you leave at 18 and some parents never see their children again. its because it will make the parent happy to know that you are willing to do that and as a result the parent will always treat you with care and give you whats best. if they choose to disobey you run around do what the others do and leave at 18 if you find out they are broke you will feel bad for them and give money but if they constantly do it then abandon you you will stop giving money untill they begin to act like they love you. question 4- im gonna tell you one thing Allah can do whatever he pleases thats why we can be sent unwillingly and i dont understand what you mean by father affecting sons thing so please clarify when you respond which i assume you will. If you have never heard about Jesus never dying in our religion then you have missed the main differnce about the difference in our religions i assumed you already knew that we belived this they usually teach it in middle school social studies if need more information about this you should research it because it will take too long to explain i have a perfect website to ask a religious american scholer all about our religion but he takes about a week to reply and i dont know if you have all that time. question 5- im sorry i misunderstood your question i would like you to know that we belive that every single prophet made a mistake and repented exept muhammad and this reason it because Allah said in the quran anything that muhhamad says becomes Allahs law too so if Muhammad ever made a mistake than mandking would follow in his footsteps but every other prophet did make a mistake which after repentace was forgiven and We do not claim them to be perfect I belive that there are only two human beings who were ever perfect: mary and muhammad which a lot of people would agree but others might include jesus. so allah didnt make him perfect his mistake was perpously made well known so we may learn from him, but i guess you can saw that he never made another mistake. question 6- yes adam did sin, but his sin was one that couldent be prevented because he didnt know right and wrong from that point but he still did do somthing cosidered to be wrong. for example if a baby tthrew up all over a very expensive blouse, the child didnt know that its wrong to do or can even controll it the lady wearing the blous still felt like it did somthing bad but didnt punish them because they are young and cluless, but as they grew up they needed to puke they kniw to run somwhere like a trash can a bag outside anywhere away from people and learned from their mistake. Adam did pass away at the time when the devil was tempting him he was in a body and if you ask somone religious what is the definition of death its when your body dies but me and you both know that a sould remains forever so the devil said you will live forever is he meant your body will because he knows a soul will live forever so he did lie the body died but the soul lived on but the devil was refering to the body not the soul. and if you become confused about the soul and how it lives on or anything concerning this subject i wont be able to answer you because as the prophet said the soul is a secret that belongs to allah and we were given no clarification to what it is. I would also like to inform you not to take offense because i simply love speaking about this subject and i do often study other religions to see how others think and feel (i have read the bible) and i love educating others about this religion because i find it to be a beautiful subject and would like others to feel how i feel i do not take offense to what you say i have heard things that were meant to insult me and the religion and they are very far from anything you have said i respect the patcience you have because others get frustrated with what i say and simply call me a terrorist and leave the subject alone and just for fun try to guess my age gender and what state im from...... if you feel like this website is a difficuly way of communicating i do have a skype and an oovoo and i would love to talk to you as long as you agree to have no one else present in the conversation assuming you are a lady if your a man forget my offer....sorry!
Ok, concerning question 1, if Adam and Eve already had this knowledge, did the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad signify anything at all? if they already possessed what supposedly this tree provided then why was it forbidden from them to eat of it? If it wasn't really forbidden but Allah simply set it up as a test, like you say, just to see if they would eat it or not, obey or disobey, I don't see why Satan would, seemingly, agree to participate in a meaningless test that was just about obedience when it seems his main problem was his own pride. Was it pride in misleading humans to listen to him? It sounds like this actually may be what you are saying. Anyways, I still don't understand setting up a test to inform them about Satan with the actual devil as the threat, unless Satan was simply fooled into trying to fool them with this fruit as well. If Allah wanted to set up a trial run for them in case they ran into Satan why wouldn't he make it all fake, with no real punishment and some other angel playing as a deceiver. This is like explaining the rules of a game to kid that has never played it and suggesting doing a pracice game where no one is taking score, so they know what to expect, like baseball and then instead of you being the pitcher, you bring in the professional who someday your kid might actually have to play against, and the when they lose, even though you knew they would, even though it's their first tIme playing ever, you say, "well actually that loss does count as a real loss. Okay let's play again now that you are now 0-1.". I would feel tricked if I was that child, even if it was just because my parent wanted me to feel what it was like to lose. I never really had a chance to begin with.
Concerning question 3: you would honestly put your own child through hardship and temptation concerning intsructiOns you gave them for life just to see how much they loved you? Where is your love as a parent to try and do all you can to protect them from the indecent things of the world. If this were true, then the Prophet would tell all Muslims what Allah commanded and then to expose themselves to all these forbidden things to see how well they do. Isn't the Quran all about guarding oneself and staying pious and god-fearing, even to the extent of either converting those who do not believe or not having fellowship with them at all? Where does it advocate exposing oneself or others to temptation just to prove love for Allah? I do specifically mean purposefully placing oneself in temptations path as you say Allah did with Adam and Eve. Besides, if he felt he needed to prepare them for Satan because he was such a threat, why didn't he simply destroy Satan and settle the problem before it began?
Question 4 If Allah is the creator, than certainly he can do whatever he wishes. This is why I asked about your statement that no human can leave heaven once they are there, because either that wasn't entirely true or else Allah had instituted a law stating that even he would not do this. But I am sorry I misunderstood you; now that that is clearer, I can understand a little better now. As far as fathers sin affecting sons I meant that since Islam does not teach original sin, than all humans would have to come into being in the same way like Adam. Not neccesarily direct creation of God, but if Adam originated in heaven in a sinless state and only went down to Earth after sinning, than all his offspring would have to follow this course if they too were brought into this world sinless. Unless earthly life is not just a punishment or proving ground for humans to prove themselves worthy after sinning (even if such a sin was set up to occur by Allah, which then that first sin would have to be failing a divine heavenly test by Allah) or else it could be said that humans born on Earth are already considered needing to prove themselves as worthy since Adam had failed the first test in heaven. By the way, I forgot to mention that while Eve is recorded in the Bible as taking the first bite of the fruit, it is Adam, the head, God addresses first in the Bible, first to question, then to pronounce sentence upon. Yes, Eves birth pangs increased, but Adam would forever be attributed as the introducer of sin to mankind in the Bible. As far as Jesus need dying being a Muslim belief, in my public school, I didn't have any classes on religion. All my studying has been independent and through my religion.
Question 5 This greatly clears up a large issue. I apologize for harping on the subject of prophets and infallibility, however, it is something I read from quite a few different sources on Islam, and it didn't make much sense to me anyways.
QuestiOn 6 Actually, because the Bible does not teach about an immortal soul, I do not believe in it. The bible says that when a person dies his spirit or life force (ruach) goes out, he goes back to the ground (his physical body) and in that day his thoughts do leave him. It also says the dead are not conscious of anything at all. When Sarah died, Abraham's wife, the bible says her breath left her. The idea of an immortal soul comes from the twisted teaching of many pagan religions in the first century blended in with apostate Christianity to attract more worshippers and gain power and government approval. When jesus followers spoke of heavenly life, they were referring to a small group of worshippers that would be ressurected to spirit life like Jesus. Jesus also spoke of many more people who would inherit a peaceful earth free of wickedness through resurrection on earth. Jesus is recorded in the bible giving resurrections. But nowhere do those resurrected talk about a life after death experience of heaven or hell (which sadly, since Jesus was the first to ascend to heaven, would mean if there was an afterlife, there would only be hell waiting for them. Don't you think they would have wanted to talk about that! And if they did it would make sense to record their testimony; this is of course so long as you don't believe in purgatory, which as a place that one can leave and go to heaven or hell from is not a biblical teaching either).
I do enjoy this conversation and it is wonderful to get detailed answers from an actual Muslim. It helps me to understand your mind and beliefs. This website isn't too difficult for me, actually prefer it as if we did Skype, my husband would probably forget if I was having a private conversation and walk in the room and I wouldn't want there to be an uncomfortable situation. But do reply back to me on here!
So mila....Hello again, seems better to paste it as a whole here... i'll just paste it to be sewed together, and I got ur reply so no need to paste it here again. Bismillah Alrahman Alrahim..
Why was Adam created?
When Allah created Adam, He created him for two reasons: to worship Him, and to success the earth: [2: 30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the EARTH, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
Here, the verse showed that Adam was created to LIVE ON EARTH, to be a viceroy.. and this is the burden that human accepted to carry:
[33:72] We had offered the Trust (of divine responsibilities) to the heavens, the earth, the mountains, but they refrained from bearing the burden and were frightened of it; but man took it on himself. He is a faithless ignoramus.
But what about the garden/Jannah where Adam was created? Why didn't he just stay there?
The word: Jannah/Paradise is an Arabic word stands for paradise of heaven, and for gardens of earth, like the verses:
[55:46] But for him who lived in awe of the sublimity of his Lord, there will be two gardens
[34:15] There was a sign for the people of Saba in their habitations: Two gardens, on the right and left. (And they were told:) "Eat of what your Lord has given you and be thankful. Fair is your land, and forgiving your Lord."
The two previous verses both used the word Jannah/garden, but one meant the Paradise and one meant a garden on Earth. From this was the conflict amongst scholars, but the wisest of them said: The heaven Paradise was never seen by any living creature, and it couldn't be the garden that Adam was created in for a simple reason, that the one who enters jannah of heaven shall never get out:
[15:48] No weariness will come upon them, nor will they be sent away from there.
So what was that jannah where Adam was created in? it was a jannah of examination. And the word dwell mentioned for Adam expelled out of that jannah meant to go from a higher state to a lower state, from this jannah to real earth, not necessarily to fall from heaven to earth, and that jannah just disappeared.. it did its job! Where is it now? Allah knows best! If it's so, then why was all this for?
Allah wanted to teach Adam a little lesson before he goes on with his life on Earth.. SATAN IS UR ENEMY, but it was made in a practical lesson, another lesson Adam learned, ALLAH IS UR SHELTER, HIS DOORS ARE ALWAYS OPEN, AND HE'S ALWAYS THERE WATCHING YOU.
These lessons are the core of life, they are the pavement we'll walk on to fulfill our mission here on earth.
*So, Allah doesn't need us, or our worship, and He's beyond question.. if you really know He's your creator, the next step shall be obeying Him and submission to His might.. So if u ask if Allah doesn't need us so why did He create us, I'd say I've no answer but for expression of His power as a Creator.
Back to Adam, he knew now the way to Allah, knew how to return for Him after mistake, just like what his offspring shall do. And he fulfilled his mission, he worshipped Allah the way Allah commanded him, and worked on earth, made a change in it, brought the whole mankind.
Now why need testing if Allah already knew who deserves jannah and who doesn’t?
When someone brings you a gift for no reason but that he knows you are smart, would it be better or having an exam where all would have the same chance to express their abilities then the reward goes for those who SHOWED UP intelligence and hard work?
Suppose Allah let us all go to heaven, each in his grade; some have lower and some have higher grades, couldn't just anybody of lower grades say: O' God, this is unfair.. I deserve to be higher!! suppose Allah replies: no, I know u don't.. the reply would then be: try me, and will see!
Another thing… when someone works so hard and then get paid, he feels the joy of earning that with his hard work.. and when you do something wrong to someone and apologize then he accepts your apology, you just feel grateful to him.. That's how it goes; a human who enters jannah after that earth life feels so grateful that Allah granted him with mercy and the great reward of forgiveness and the jannah where joy is endless.
But Adam sinned, this means that all prophets sin, is that logic? And why were we created sinning? And how would we enter jannah after that?
*sinning doesn't mean being unworthy.. we all enter jannah by Allah's mercy after all, not even with our good deeds, it's Allah who made us be able to do them! Gave us tongue, eyes, limbs, will, health…
And asking for forgiveness means that you recognize Allah's power and direct to His Face.. means you know what God means, and God's mercy is beyond imagination.
But on condition that: do not live a sinful life and turn to repent when you're about to die! That means cheating, and relation with Allah must be so pure and honest.
The one who sins and doesn't repent just sends that message: I DON'T RECOGNIZE YOU AS A GOD, I don't care for you!
The more you regard Allah the more you get closer to Him, your sins lessen while your awareness of His watchfulness is heightened; this is when you have a different meaning of sinning: you'll then consider wasting time a sin, overeating a sin, oversleeping a sin.. you'll just see Allah in every movement and try not to let Him see something He Hates from you, you'll then see even thinking of sin is a sin.. that's sure a very high grade, and that's somewhat the grade of sinning for the prophets.
And yeah, sinning is part of being human: in a Hadith, Prophet Muhammad tells that: if you don't sin, Allah would remove you and bring others who sin then repent then be forgiven!
Okay, but if earth resembles paradise, then why is there earth or why is there paradise?
Allah made heaven similar to earth in shape of fruits, trees, birds… to make us feel familiar to it, but Allah who was able to create different crops rising out of same soil could make a banana in heaven look like a banana on earth but with a different taste and pleasure.
So they indeed are totally different, the differences are too many to be mentioned here, and the Noble Quran mentioned that issue in detail.
So dear Mila, I'll make it all here as long as u prefer that Pleased to share my answer with u Accept my respect Wallahu Aaalm/Allah knows best!
Ok wow, thank you :) this final Answer of yours, while I may not agree, does help me to know Better what it is and how that Muslims believe. Our views of the original state of mankind and paradise are very different indeed, but this does give me an indication why Islam has no belief of original sin, as well as what Islam teaches about what heaven is like. Thank you for your explanations and patience, they have cleared a lot of things up. I wish you all the best :)